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Talk:Illusive Man
I don't know what that example in the article is about, but I know EXACTLY who inspired the illusive man!!!! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cigarette_Smoking_Man http://x-files.wikia.com/wiki/Cigarette_Smoking_Man Not only does he stay in the shadows, and SMOKE, but he actually looks THE SAME! (little younger, though) 03:04, November 14, 2009 (UTC) :Gotta say, as a big X-Files fan myself, I totally see it. SpartHawg948 06:17, November 14, 2009 (UTC) :If the Illusive Man turns out to be Shepard's real father, I'll be out for blood. --Vaile 21:58, December 16, 2009 (UTC) ::As awesome as that prospect sounds, I'd have to say it's unlikely based on the whole choosing of backgrounds thing. SpartHawg948 23:36, December 16, 2009 (UTC) :::Unless it turns out, again like X-Files, that the man we thought was Shepard's father is not.--Vaile 01:18, December 17, 2009 (UTC) Martin Sheen? Really? There were so many cool actors they could've gone with to voice the Illusive Man... William B Davis, Robert Davi, basically any of the ususal suspects for voicing dark mysterious characters, and instead they go with... Martin Sheen. Oh well... I'll just have to grit my teeth and play through it... SpartHawg948 20:40, November 15, 2009 (UTC) :HAHA!! I know what you mean! Everytime I hear his voice, my mind flashes back to those Eyewitness videos they used to play in my elementary school's Science Class. What were they thinking!? Effectofthemassvariety 04:23, December 7, 2009 (UTC) I really like Martin Sheen, but they should've casted either Alan Rickman or Willem DaFoe. --LBCCCP 19:25, December 13, 2009 (UTC) :Willem DaFoe I could kind of see, but Alan Rickman would have made him sound all whiny and nasally. That wouldn't do at all! You need dark and mysterious or dark and menacing, hence my suggestion of William B. Davis or Robert Davi. Now he's just going to sound like a smug old know-it-all, which I guess I can see, although I'd prefer to lose the old part. Or, since they appear to be getting a few people from BSG, why not James Callis or Edward James Olmos? Or Callum Keith Rennie? Oh well, what's done is done. At least we also get Michael Hogan and Michael Dorn! Now there's some good voice acting! :) SpartHawg948 21:07, December 13, 2009 (UTC) ::Callum Keith Rennie would've been a good choice. Even though Olmos and Callis are awesome, and did great in BSG, I can't see them in the role. I don't know, maybe it's me. :/ Effectofthemassvariety 21:16, December 13, 2009 (UTC) All good ideas; I can especially see Robert Davi. By the way, when I say Alan Rickman, I'm mostly picturing his Hans Grüber from Die Hard. Well I guess I'm a little biased since I just watched that movie today and it's fresh in my mind. And a couple days ago I watched Platoon so that might be where Willem DaFoe came from. --LBCCCP 03:39, December 14, 2009 (UTC) :I dunno, I'm going to wait until I actually play through it to pass judgment. Think of David Carradine in Kill Bill Vol. 2. His mannerisms aren't what you'd attribute to the way his character was introduced - somewhat mysterious, puller of strings, in charge of deadly people - but once you see the movie and the way that he's characterized in it, it totally fits. I'm giving BioWare the benefit of them doubt until I play the game. Boter 00:55, December 17, 2009 (UTC) ::Never saw it, so no clue as to what you are talking about. All I know is that A) Martin Sheen doesn't seem at all right for the role, unlike the other actors I named and; B) The performances we've seen from him so far (from the videos and trailers and whatnot where Illusive Man talks) have totally lived down to my expectations of him. We'll see when it releases, but from what I've seen thus far I am definitely not holding my breath. SpartHawg948 01:01, December 17, 2009 (UTC) :::I figured from the trailers, but after having played... three hours longer than I should have last night, I'd say that he really did a good job with it. I enjoyed his performance :) Boter 17:50, January 29, 2010 (UTC) :::: Meh, I liked Martin Sheen in this. Sure, there a number of actors who could've made a better job but I think it fits. --Fiskn 03:40, February 1, 2010 (UTC) Steely blues http://masseffect.bioware.com/resources/assets/universe/characters/screenshots/illusive_man-02-p.jpg Whats wrong with his eyes? --- I assumed that he had implanted Cybernetics on to himself for various reasons and purposes --Fiskn 03:37, February 1, 2010 (UTC) : It could just be me and my crappy crt tv, but Saren appears to have had some ocular restructuring done to him as well. His eyes seem to be drastically different in the Virmire and Citadel encounters as compared to his Eden Prime appearance. They don't just appear to glow blue, but also seem to have physical demarcations. I might'nt have brought it up, except that he clearly has them on Virmire, before his supposed upgrades. A possible connection??Baron Von Awesome 18:17, April 19, 2010 (UTC) :: I didn't see Saren's eyes being odd. Maybe I wasn't paying attention, but they looked normal to me. TheArcticVanguard 03:56, April 12, 2010 (UTC) : At first they're typical turian eyes, definitely. But from Virmire onwards, there is a significant luminosity and slight patterning to them.Baron Von Awesome 18:17, April 19, 2010 (UTC) Due to the obvious similarity to a Renegade Shepard's eyes (other than color, the only difference is that they're flipped), I think it's simply Bioware alluding to the mix of Renegade (the dots/Cerberus' anti alien practices) and the Paragon (the blue/Cerberus' long term goal of advancing humanity as a whole). CAW4 01:51, March 18, 2010 (UTC) I just assumed that he had implants. Maybe he was blind at one point? It would be interesting. The blind man that sees all. TheArcticVanguard 03:56, April 12, 2010 (UTC) : Certainly a possibility. Also, given some speculation that the next novel may be a prequel to ME2, we may see that the eyes were developed from Reaper tech gained through the Grayson experiments. Bit of a leap, but time will tell, yes?Baron Von Awesome 18:17, April 19, 2010 (UTC) Is it just me or does the pattern of his eyes look a lot like sharingan? 07:20, April 12, 2010 (UTC)Someone : I can kinda see it, although I wouldn't say it's very pronounced. If Mass Effect 3 is anything like naruto, they won't be getting my money. TheArcticVanguard 07:44, April 12, 2010 (UTC) NOT HUMAN? SPOILER ALERT: I cannot remember if it was after Jacob's mission or the one where you are ambushed on the "damaged" Collector ship, but The Illusive Man refers to humanity as being apart from himself. I wish I had wrote down what he says EXACTLY, so if anyone is approaching either part, give a heads up. Its subtle, but its definatly there.-- 05:19, January 28, 2010 (UTC) : If Renegade: : Illusive Man: "That humanity has a more fragile role in our galixy than we think : Player: "And where do you fit into this exactly." : Illusive Man: *chuckles* I'll always have a place. :::That's a piece of supposition that is A) Not supported by the above dialogue (if this is indeed the correct dialogue) and B) Completely contradicted by the biographical information BioWare has provided. If the above dialogue is indeed what is being referred to, all the Illusive Man is saying is that humanity isn't as strong as it seems to think it is and that there will therefor always be a need for people like him (ie human ultra-nationalists willing to use whatever means necessary to defend humanity and advance the human agenda on the galactic front). SpartHawg948 05:40, February 12, 2010 (UTC) :Well, after the Collector Cruiser mission, he says this: "Without that information, you and every other human would be dead." (In regards to why he withheld information that the Cruiser was a trap). It seems pretty odd to me that he seems to directly remove himself from this blanket label of human. It would be more plausible (if he was human), to say "Us and every other human..." Thoughts? -- 06:30, February 15, 2010 (UTC) ::So, every other human must automatically not include him? You state that it seems odd to you that "he seems to directly remove himself from this blanket label of human." yet I see no evidence in his quote that he does any such thing. If anything, he didn't feel the need to include himself as it's pretty obvious that every other human would include another human, such as himself. As for why he wouldn't sat "Us and every other human", meybe because I doubt the Illusive Man would be caught using mangled grammar like that. There really is no good way for him to interject himself into that statement, nor would there be any need to if he's human, as it goes without saying that a human like him would be included in "every other human". SpartHawg948 06:33, February 15, 2010 (UTC) Conversation nuances aside, about halfway through the game it occurred to me that the Illusive Man could be a representative of an extra-galactic AI or cyborg rival group to the Reapers. Perhaps (like the divided geth) the Illusive Man's group recognizes the value of organic life in contrast to the Reapers, and they, for whatever reason, decided humanity stood the best chance to galvanize the galaxy's defenses against the Reapers. What really struck me was the emphasis on his apparently synthetic eyes - I'd be surprised if this weren't foreshadowing to some future plot twist. A strange place for an old friend to turn up. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ioslNR0WiI Watch the upper left area of the ceiling between times 1:40 and 1:50. What?? Whachu talkin bout willis.. the cut scene is normal, nothing special there. You aren't looking hard enough. It comes later within the timeframe. Just keep watching the upper left hand area . It is no on another video from the ending so its probably just a glitch with the video or was edited by the poster. Not a glitch and not an edit. Just finished my hardcore run and I saw it as well. Dude, you are smoking crack. There is nothing of out of the ordinary. 12:00, February 1, 2010 (UTC) Umm, no. There is definitely a small window showing TIM. Maybe you need eye implants? Hmm it seems it's on another video too. Odd. ::There's definitely more to the Illusive Man than what's revealed. If he was able to watch Shepard destroy the Human Reaper, then something's up. Somehow he's connected, we just don't know how or why. Tecni 18:35, February 1, 2010 (UTC) :Obviously a graphical bug. It doesn't look like a window nor does it look like it is supposed to be one. -- 15:53, February 2, 2010 (UTC) And what makes it an "obvious graphical bug" Mr. professional videogame developer? Just noticed this, and decided to check it out, it took like 10 minutes to figure out what was being talked about, going nearly frame-by-frame you can see what happens, at 1:47 the human-reaper has fallen, and it switches pov to looking up from below, before Miranda looks over the edge is where it starts, at about 1:48 we see the tip of an orange-flesh like color through the crack on the upper right side, going further it *sort of* starts to look like the shape of the Illusive Man's head, however to me, it looks like it could be a sort of mirror glitch in the video (even though Shepard has a helmet on), because it also looks like a male Shepard to me, since you don't really see hair, and Shepard has short hair compared to Illusive Man's high hair, also Shepard had the same sort of movement as he was moving to look over the edge as well, also we kinda see eyes in that crack, but they aren't blue like Illusive Man's at all, I would think if it was meant to show us that it was him, the eyes would be noticed.. Also it's.. extremely high above, consider that there was a huge amount of space to fit the Human-Reaper, and there's plenty of shots of just how large that room is.. If the small part of Illusive Man's face is larger than Shepard's body, at that viewpoint, that means the Illusive Man would be just as large as the Human-Reaper itself, which is doubtful, since we saw him earlier in the same room as Miranda at the very start of the game. Also if it's not a glitch of Shepard, and really is the Illusive Man, it again, would likely be a glitch, because notice how similar it looks to the holographic of the Illusive Man, that pops up at 2:19/2:20, even the angle his head pops into view is kinda similar to how you see the glitch earlier, and it's the same video, with Illusive Man's eyes not obviously blue in the holographic, so heightens the chances of it being a simple video glitch.. sorry for the length of this, but just would seem silly to me, to call that a valid sighting of Illusive Man. Jaline 01:14, February 3, 2010 (UTC) ::IMO, Someone should take a few snap-shots at high resolution so we can see it more clearly, because some grainy youtube video is not good source material to speculate over. 20:12, February 3, 2010 (UTC) found something. from 4chan. courtesy of 4chan 04:43, February 12, 2010 (UTC) Has to be a bug, he was clearly on his station talking to Shepard a few seconds/minutes later. Besides that, why would he (physically) be on a station that is just about to explode or be cleansed of all organic life? If he is meant to be there, it's an Easter egg surely. Bronzey 05:36, February 13, 2010 (UTC) 4chan really is grasping for straws aren't they now? That's a pretty lame saying there, bit long for it too I'd think. Anyways, it is a much better shot (though I'm not convinced it's entirely un-edited to be honest), but still... too much of a chance for it to simply be a bug. (Also, Illusive Man is *always* watching you, wouldn't be surprised if he simply had feeds from your suit, or your cybernetics, however some physical form of himself in the ceiling is just silly.) Jaline 05:45, February 13, 2010 (UTC) It's not an edit I just replayed that part and I saw him too. It's clearly the illusive man. I'm thinking it might be a graphical bug caused by the fact that you talk to him through the hologram on that level. Maybe that's where they move the "object" of the hologram when it's not used. 09:40, February 19, 2010 (UTC) Friendly Anon here, Ceiling TIM does not seem to appear in the XBOX360 version of the game as seen at 8:42 in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JowP7nx3pM8 Interesting that this doesn't show up in the Xbox 360 version. A better video of the Illusive Man in the PC version can be found in the following link. Make sure to change the video options up to 720p HD for clearest viewing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmMot8ZnM_A -Sidedish 23:16, March 11, 2010 (UTC) Illusive Man in Ceiling Just finished it myself on PC; and saw him clear as day. Rather shocking, actually, after dealing with a giant human-form Reaper. Here's a crazy, off-beat, left-field thought: the Illusive Man is actually a completed human-form Reaper. How about that? (Taking it a step further...) And he's actually physically watching through the ceiling as Shepherd deals the death blows to the partial Reaper. (Yes, I know he talks to Miranda face to face earlier, but what's with the sun changing color after the explosion? Where is he actually located/transmitting from? Hmm?) Incidentally, this is all random speculation; it's probably a glitch, I've had one similar on the Citadel, with frozen close-up dialogue characters showing through clipping in the background, so it's probably just that. 21:05, February 22, 2010 (UTC) : He's watching you masturbate. 12:42, May 29, 2010 (UTC) It looks like a face but it isnt Mooser 02:55, March 1, 2010 (UTC). It is very clearly The Illusive Man in those frames, no doubt about it. However, I firmly believe this is a bug. Why? For one, PC users, like myself, experience similar bugs from time to time--for example, on Garrus' loyalty mission, after you confront Harkin, you and Garrus take a car to the Citadel to confront Sidonis. During the transition between the scene of Hark and the car scene, every single time my version glitches and distorts the background--to describe it more accurately, everything in the foreground and everything in motion moves as normal, however the background and textures all act transparent, creating a blur effect, while at the same time smearing the previous image of the Harkin confrontation, despite the fact that that scene is over. It's difficult to explain, but if someone would like I can go take a video of it and post it on YouTube--you'll find that it's very similar to this one. Note that, in the video, not only do you see TIM, but you also see the background area of where he's sitting (although it's all just black). Let me know if you want that video. EDIT: Watch this video. Right at the beginning you can see the graphical glitch--it's exactly like the one on the C-Base with Illusive Man, there's simply more room in the background for the scene to bleed through. Ramikadyc 01:16, March 20, 2010 (UTC) Illusive Man or Elusive? Illusive means, illusionary. are we meant to take this to mean the Illusive Man does not really exist? perhaps so, perhaps he is a projection from a machine, he certainly looks like he's computer generated. Or is he just elusive? if you run a clandestine operation like Cerberus, you'd want to be elusive (and not just from telemarketers). he certainly is elusive even if he is also illusive, since Shepherd never actually gets to meet him and, in fact, the only person seen to meet him is Miranda. was she really also in the same room even? :Well, his name is indisputably the Illusive Man, not Elusive, and as for the meaning, you have to look at the source. The term 'illusive man' was coined by the Alliance to describe the purported author of an email circulated around the internet, the author of which the Alliance knew nothing about, nor could they learn anything about. Seeing as how this would imply that they weren't even sure it was a man who authored the email, illusive would seem to fit, wouldn't it? As for elusive, we don't know that some person named Shepherd wasn't able to meet him, but Commander Shepard definitely wasn't in-game. And actually, there are two people confirmed to "meet" him face-to-face. Miranda, who was indeed in the room with him, and an unnamed Cerberus member who is also seen in the room with him during a cutscene, taking a datapad from him. SpartHawg948 01:10, March 2, 2010 (UTC) ::You're correct, of course. but there's a subtle word play here, you usually talk about something being elusive, because you cant find it. that's the concept you think about (at least it do). what im really saying here, is that the "illusive" bit is that he doesnt really exist and im wondering if this will play out in ME3 - this being a clue? Mooser 01:16, March 2, 2010 (UTC) ::Three people, if you count Paul Grayson. And that's one meeting we know of where he wasn't in his swank paragon-or-renegade-star sunroom. -- Delphinus 01:03, March 15, 2010 (UTC) :But how can he not exist if we've already seen him to physically exist? SpartHawg948 01:16, March 2, 2010 (UTC) :: im fishing for plot lines here and the illusive man's elusive history could be, for example, he's Shepherd's father or, he's a machine - or something not what he appears to be. i hope we see some good plot in ME3 and this doesnt turn out to be another "administrator" who's existence is never explained. Mooser 01:22, March 2, 2010 (UTC) ::Illusive can also mean deceptive, misleading, or hard to grasp. --silverstrike 01:25, March 2, 2010 (UTC) :Given the varied nature of Shepard's background, I find the father bit unlikely in the extreme. His being a machine is (in my opinion) similarly unlikely, given what we know about his back-story. It'd have to be a machine that had already infiltrated into humanity well before first contact with the turians. At this time, I don't really see any big "twists" relating to the Illusive Man, I think the big plot thing will have more to do with Shepard choosing his loyalties- does he side with the Alliance and the Citadel, or does he side with the Illusive Man? SpartHawg948 01:26, March 2, 2010 (UTC) ::I think he does physically exist and that the person who began this thread was over-simplifying things by using the term "illusionary." I think the context of "illusive" in this case was stating that he creates illusions, which is certainly true of a black-ops organization that uses several lucrative front businesses to mask its operations. "Illusive" in this case, I think, just means "he's hiding something," and we've seen him live up to that time and again in the course of the game. You never see all his cards. I'd have to go with the opinion of him being human, too. Power hungry, but human. And personally, just me, I'm not sure you really will be able to side with the Illusive Man in ME3. A paragon certainly wouldn't, and a renegade likely will come into more of a power struggle against the Illusive Man. I think he goes from being "your" boss in ME2 to "a" major boss in ME3. JakeARoonie 02:53, March 28, 2010 (UTC) Illusive Man's age The galaxy's first sighting of the Illusive Man, as we know, came from his paper that showed up on the extranet "immediately following the First Contact War." Looking it up, the First Contact War took place in 2157, lasting three months. Mass Effect 2 takes place in 2185, approximately 26 years later. Unless the Illusive Man was a child prodigy, he must have been at LEAST a teenager to have written his extranet paper. Assuming he had to be at LEAST 16 at the time of that paper, his minimum age at the time of Mass Effect 2 would be 42 years old. I know that's far too speculative to include in the article proper, but thought it deserved mentioning somewhere. So, here you go. JakeARoonie 02:53, March 28, 2010 (UTC) : If the Illusive Man is really 42, my first thought would be about how that'd be a cool Hitchhiker's reference. Then again, I think anything sci-fi related to 42 is a Hitchhiker's reference. TheArcticVanguard 07:18, April 10, 2010 (UTC) He acts like a 8 year old if you piss him off at the end. Illusive Manchild if you ask me Use of the Collector Base Anyone speculate as to what he'll use the collector base for (if you saved it)? I highly doubt it'll end up being used for the good of humanity so much as his own good. It's clear that he seeks a human dominated galaxy. Maybe a galactic conquest ending for ME3 if you save it? The expression on his face is far from friendly, in my opinion. He's definitely up to something. TheArcticVanguard 00:41, April 11, 2010 (UTC) Well, there are a few possibilities. Leaving the base intact obviously means that the Collectors weapons caches will be intact as well. By reverse engineering collector weaponry, or even just using the weapons themselves, the Illusive man would gain a huge advantage over the Alliance and Citadel Council. In addition, the recovered tech could also be used to upgrade the Normandy, or possibly create a new ship altogether; heck, maybe even a small fleet of ships. (A fleet of Collector Cruisers... I'd be willing to bet even Shepard would simply say to hell with it all and quit.) While this would be handy in a battle with the Reapers, there would be nothing to stop the Illusive man from then turning on the Alliance and Citadel. All speculation of course, but sensible ''speculation at least.Tantalus91 15:03, April 12, 2010 (UTC) : All very good points. And don't forget the ship graveyard in the space outside the base. Who knows what technology could be on their hulls? TheUnknown285 04:01, June 25, 2010 (UTC) No reason to get hyper i was thinking, maybe his weird eyes are maybe just prosthetic after all. due to the fact that hes always goin on about how information is his weapon and he has a f-load of contacts... maybe his eyes are just like connected to some some of information feeder... an ocular info lense of some sort?? I THINK CONTACT LENS LOL Quote change! How about a quote change to: "Diplomacy is great when it works, but difficult when everyone already perceives you as a threat." ? This quote stuck with me after the game and I think it deserves to be on here. Yay/Nay? :I think a change is good. The Illusive Man has many things to say, and I think that we should show several of them. This is just one of many of his memorable quotes, so I vote to change it. Dammej 07:26, June 15, 2010 (UTC) Awww... I was all set to vote in favor of changing the quote... then I realized which person was making what change. Personally, I think that the 'salvation comes at a cost...' quote is a much better character descriptor for TIM than is the diplomacy quote. After all, TIM really isn't diplomatic at all, at least not that we see, so fully 1/2 of the quote listed in the first post here really doesn't apply to him. I'm afraid I'll have to vote no. I'm sticking with salvation coming at a cost. SpartHawg948 07:41, June 15, 2010 (UTC) :I agree entirely. It isn't necessary and I vote against the change. --The Illusive Man 07:54, June 15, 2010 (UTC) ::I am also going to have to disagree with the change becuase to me TIM seems very Machavellian in his style of handling things and pushing human interests. For someone who follows that style of thinking, the ends justify the means, they often don't negotiate on matters, they act. The current one, to me, seems to describe that style of thinking, and to be honest, as Spart already stated, he really isn't diplomatic at all. Lancer1289 07:56, June 15, 2010 (UTC) ::I'm a no as well, I thought personally his "Salvation comes at a cost..." quote was excellent in summing up his character and motivations. As already stated, the alternative is a negative quote, not expressing TIM so much as expressing what he is not (diplomatic). Bronzey 09:34, June 15, 2010 (UTC) :: :: But that's what makes the quote so good at representing TIM. He knows he and Cerberus are already seen as a threat, hence why he avoids diplomatic moves. It comes in response to the commander saying something along the lines of "sometimes it pays to have friends." You that argued it is poor because he is not diplomatic are entirely missing the point of the quote and the context in which he says it. No, it implies that he thinks there is a time and a place for diplomacy, which would be odd for him to say, as he never seems to have used diplomacy himself. And since he pretty much started out by launching terrorist attacks, he started out as a perceived threat. On the other hand, the 'Salvation comes at a price' quote is him stating that the ends justify the means. And if I had to sum up TIM's mindset in one sentence, that would be it. And what can better represent someone than a quote that depicts their core beliefs and ideals? TIM doesn't believe in diplomacy, he believes in furthering/protecting humanity by any means necessary. SpartHawg948 19:20, June 15, 2010 (UTC) It is a quote by TIM so you are simply wrong. "which would be odd for him to say." Well, he says it. Also, he does not imply that he uses diplomacy. In fact, he pretty blatently implies that he believes diplomacy can be a great tool, but not for those that are already percieved as a threat. Hence, why he does not use it. :I didn't say he never said the quote. I said that he doesn't believe the underlying message. And again, the quote, as you say, implies that he feels diplomacy can be a great tool. So great that he never uses it, huh? On the other hand, ''once again, TIM is all about the ends justifying the means. It's his entire method of operating. And it's what is suggested by the current quote. Next time, before calling other users 'simply wrong', please make sure you grasp what they are saying, as you pretty well misinterpreted my post. SpartHawg948 04:00, June 16, 2010 (UTC) : Trivia / Inspired By? Why is that bit of 'trivia' there? Has anyone from bioware said anything to support this? Has Martin Sheen, as unofficial as that would be, stated his portrayal was influenced by any of those characters? There are similarities of course, but similarities do not mean the same thing as being iinspired by/i. That in mind, TIM is similar in some ways to every "shadowy guy behind the scenes pulling strings" in every bit of fiction, ever, and dissimilar in many ways as well. For example, the Half-Life G-Man works for someone else (he often mentions his employers) and he never explains his reasons, both very different from TIM. Personally I think that bit of "trivia" should be either genericized, perhaps with a link to an appropriate non-ME2-specific resource on "illuminati" type characters, or better yet, just removed entirely -- at least until it can be confirmed. About this edit http://masseffect.wikia.com/index.php?title=Illusive_Man&diff=prev&oldid=129130 Have you looked at them? Renegade Shepard's eyes only differences are that they're red and upside down in comparison to the Illusive Man's. CAW4 15:42, July 3, 2010 (UTC) :I don't want to get drawn into an argument over this, so I'm just going to list why I reverted you re-adding that piece of trivia here and then be done with it. :#The pattern is not the same. Renegade shep has solid red pupils with 3 small dots in the iris. The illusive man has a circle that goes around the pupil, 3 much larger circles in the iris, plus arcs between each of these circles. :#The color is, obviously, not the same. :#The remaining possible similarity we might say they have is "They're both artificial." However, we don't know if the Illusive Man's eyes are cybernetic. It seems plausible, given that we don't see anyone else with these eyes, but it's still speculation to assume so. Speculation is a naughty word around here, so that's right out. :Barring those points, all we have left is "The Illusive Man and a renegade Shepard both have strange eyes" Anyone with eyes of their own can see that, so I'd say that doesn't deserve a mention in the trivia. Anyone is welcome to disagree with me, obviously, but there's why I reverted it back to the state it was: sans trivia about eyes. Dammej 05:11, July 5, 2010 (UTC) ::Agreed which is why I removed it in the first place. Lancer1289 06:19, July 5, 2010 (UTC) :::I didn't notice the first one, I noted the second one in the trivia, and I never said that they're both cybernetic (speculation is also an overused word). But, as least make note of the similarities. Most people who play the game see renegade Shepard's eyes and the Illusive Man's eyes and consider them near identical. Since you're pointing out the differences, and don't want it to say they're similar, put the differences in the trivia, but at least note it on the page. Lacking that information may make the page look incomplete to people who have noted the similarities. At the very least it will stop you from having to undo more edits of that. CAW4 15:16, July 5, 2010 (UTC) ::::I don't see why this information shouldn't be there. ::::Something like: "There are glowing features in the Illusive Man's eyes that resemble the ones in a renegade Commander Shepard's, albeit blue. This suggests The Illusive Man has received cybernetic enhancements similar to the ones Shepard received as part of Project Lazarus." ::::Can't see what's wrong with that, it's a perfectly valid piece of information. ::::JakePT 15:29, July 5, 2010 (UTC) :::: Nah, that's speculation, especially if you say " suggests The Illusive Man has received cybernetic enhancements similar to the ones Shepard received as part of Project Lazarus". That's pure speculation, we have no idea about what kind of cybernetic eyes he has. I really don't think we should put speculations anywhere in the main article Setimir92 15:41, July 5, 2010 (UTC) :::::But nothing at all like that is in there the closest you can get is "The Illusive Man's eyes bear heavy resemblance to a Renegade Shepard's cybernetic implants," which does not say that the Illusive Man has cybernetic implants. Nothing at all like what you're saying is or has recently been in there. CAW4 15:48, July 5, 2010 (UTC)